Sunday, April 19, 2009

The madness of keeping criminals in schools

On the tenth anniversary of Columbine, I came upon this article by Caitlin Flanagan as I was going through Joanne Jacobs site. Some of what the article said was music to my ears (or eyes).

Joanne's post also deals with an article that puts the lie to the idea that the two thugs were simply victims of bullying, but this one gives a brief history of the two murderers.

The one aspect of Columbine that seemed unworthy of examination -- when it came to pondering the policy changes that might actually make American schools safer places -- was the fact that the two killers had a long track record of doing exactly what deeply disturbed teenage boys have been doing since time out of mind: getting in trouble -- lots of it -- with authority.

Ten months before their shooting spree, Harris and Klebold were charged and convicted of stealing tools from a parked van. They were sentenced to a "juvenile diversion" program, which was intended -- by dint of counseling, classes, and the coordinated efforts of school administrators, social workers and police officers -- to keep the boys out of the criminal-justice system. According to the records of that experience, Harris reported having homicidal feelings, obsessive thoughts and a temper. Both boys were placed in anger management, although -- strangely, given Klebold's history of alcohol use and his submission of a dilute urine sample to his minders -- they were excused from the substance-abuse class.

Back at school (which they attended throughout their enrollment in the juvenile-diversion program), they smoked cigarettes in the hollow behind campus, cut classes and blew off schoolwork. According to Dave Cullen's new book, "Columbine," when Klebold carved obscenities into a freshman's locker and was confronted by a dean, "Dylan went ballistic. He cussed him out, bounced off the walls, acted like a nutcase." Both boys also picked on younger children and got into fights.

Here's the part that I really liked!
...There was a time when boys like these would have been labeled "juvenile delinquents" and removed from the society and company of good kids, whose rights were understood to supersede those of known offenders against the law. It was once believed that good kids should be neither endangered nor influenced by criminals-in-training.

Maybe it's time we started believing that again.

Joanne's post also includes this quote from Flanagan's article: " expel a student in most public school districts is an arduous business. An expulsion hearing is required, and parents may choose to appeal the decision, a process that rains down a world of legal woe on whatever teachers and administrators have been involved in the action."

I don't know about other states, but in Minnesota it's worse than that. The school district that expels the student is still responsible for providing the education for the expelled student. That means hiring a full-time tutor for the student. When considering the legal costs involved and the greater costs of educating the troublemaker outside of school, districts can't afford to expel anybody no matter how bad they are. It's ridiculous!

Flanagan also says this:
It is, of course, the responsibility of the state to provide some sort of education to all its children under the age of 18, and so for a host of legal, moral and economic reasons we end up with an ugly truth about our nation's schools: By design, they contain within them -- right alongside the good kids who are getting an education and running the yearbook and student government -- kids whose criminal rehabilitation is supposedly being conducted simultaneously with their academic instruction.

As someone who taught school for a decade and who has now been a mother for about as long, I can tell you that -- when it comes to children -- the rigid exercise of "due process" in matters of correction and discipline makes for high comedy at best and shared tragedy at worst.

A big "Amen!" to that. The problem is that education is viewed as a right. It shouldn't be. I'm all for our society providing the opportunity for all kids to get an education, but that shouldn't make it a right. If a kid comes into a school and acts like a criminal, he should be kicked out. Period!


Blogger mazenko said...

Years ago, as I prepared to enter the American education system after five years of teaching in Taiwan (speaking of a disciplined system), I interviewed at a couple schools after subbing for about three months. I noted the lack of willingness to actually discipline kids and make use of "in-school suspension." Two separate principals, and committees, explained that "ISS" is not a punishment, and they want to keep the kids in classes, or return them as quickly as possible, to avoid inhibiting their education.

That pretty much ended my interest in those schools.

Interestingly, I would like to know how much could be alleviated by simply enabling kids who don't want to be there to get out earlier - again reiterating my aim to allow graduation at sixteen, and reserve the last two years of high school for the truly academically motivated.

4/20/2009 11:40 AM  
Blogger Amerloc said...

Agreed: access should be the right, not results.

But federal law currently demands equal results, regardless of access.

4/20/2009 7:12 PM  
Blogger Roger Sweeny said...

If a kid comes into a school and acts like a criminal, he should be kicked out. Period!My God, Dennis, keep that up and you're going to say something really unreasonable, like, "If a kid is in ninth grade, he should be able to do ninth grade material."

4/21/2009 7:49 AM  
Blogger Rachel said...

*cheers* Thanks for sharing this. VERY interesting background on the Columbine boys; I'd never heard that before.

You allude to something that is becoming a greater problem in education (heck, it IS a problem no "becoming" about it): a decided lack of responsibility on the student's (and parent's) part, and all the responsibility on the school & teacher. By making the schools responsible for an expelled students' education, they essentially eliminate any responsibility on the student's end. He/she makes a bad decision and chooses to act irresponsibility but has to suffer none of the consequences? Why can't policy-makers see that they are doing a disservice to our future generations - and our country - by not holding students accountable for anything?!

5/02/2009 2:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rock on Dennis! When I was in school the gym teacher would make you take off your shoe tell you to bend over, and let her rip. I didn't mess up again and I don't think anyone gave a damn about my "feelings". He wasn't a scrawny bastard either.

2/21/2010 9:26 AM  
Anonymous Jhon Davis said...

Great information. Thank You. Thank you for sharing. I Found College Information which Provides Executive Legal Assistant Program. This 2-semester certificate program is designed for people who want to pursue careers as legal secretaries and administrative assistants. These support careers are becoming more important in the legal world as lawyers need to concentrate on the skilled parts of their jobs in order to become cost effective. You Can Also Visit…..

2/21/2010 10:07 PM  
Blogger Rizwan ali said...

i am regular visitor of your site and you are writing very nice so keep posting university admission

7/18/2010 3:33 AM  
Anonymous College Papers said...

Great information.

4/30/2011 3:29 AM  
Anonymous electronic cigarettes detroit said...

Too bad that you have to leave this blog. Good luck to your next steps and I'm pretty sure you will succeed. Goodbye then but I still hope that you will come back soon.

Cheap electronic cigarettes at

8/30/2011 1:23 AM  
Anonymous custom dissertation said...

If I had learned education I would not have had time to learn anything else

1/26/2012 6:04 AM  
Anonymous Upholstery Cleaning lacrescenta said...

The moment we've come to have a look at here a little over a working week ago, my brother was first so insistent around making feedback on Robert's idea actually being put forward. I however was adamant that we ought to keep our mouth closed temporarly and simply never make a comment but when he made an effort to create another comment which gives criticsms about how other folks responded on his statement, I guess he was dead mistaken for it.

2/01/2012 2:31 AM  
Anonymous Salman Khan said...

Great information. Thank You. Thank you for sharing.

That is a really good point. I think it is a combination of getting out new results and writing them in a way they are both understandable and novel. One of the reasons I mentioned the time factor is I have observed many students who tend to try to make a paper "perfect" before it goes in. I tend to lean more towards submitting dissertation writer online

9/21/2014 3:43 AM  
Blogger saixpresspackersandmovers said...

Information provides by you is really informatic and further for more information you can see .

11/24/2014 3:25 AM  
Blogger Victoria Spencerr said...

it was really informative.....
We are offering online courses
ETL TESTING Online Training
Plz visit this site

3/14/2015 4:18 AM  
Blogger Mar Limberg said...

Everybody knows that studing in college or university is really hard job. Sometimes you're boring because of tasks and researches, and have a lack of time to do this, you can always try 1st writing service,where you can get best term paper writting or just simple essay.

4/01/2015 2:01 PM  
Blogger Ejajur Rahaman said...

Hello, Thanks for your valuable post. Hope you will give us the same valuable post in
the future. I have found another good website. you can visit this website to know more.
I have got a lot of knowledge from this website.
Click Hare to go website. Thank you.

6/15/2015 9:38 AM  
Blogger Sanan Khalid said...

i read many posts of this blog and found that it is well managed blog having alot of things to learn and remain updated.

7/12/2015 4:05 AM  
Anonymous Distance Admission Center in Noida Delhi Ncr @9278888356 said...

We are proving a Distance learning course LIKE BCA, MCA, BBA, MBA, BA, MA etc. Interested student can contact 9278888356 or visit :

8/11/2015 12:09 AM  
Blogger Manas Srivastava said...

I regular top blog readers, and your blog is in my one of top blog reading list, I really love and like reading your blogs! And I really liked this post as well.. All the best keep writing.

10/10/2015 12:42 PM  
Blogger Jasleen Kaur said...

Great post! I would love to comment on Active learning blogs.

Ielts Training Ludhiana

11/01/2015 10:55 PM  
Blogger Clat India said...

This post is lovely, Education is full of dedication and innovation, it provide lot of the new things in the life and you can change you living style.Best IAS coaching in Agra

4/19/2016 11:06 PM  
Blogger Taylor Bell said...

Finally he posted this!!! I ve heared a lot about this trick!! I always thought that do exercises with lasso is only for girls... As i see i was wrong))

11/24/2016 10:48 AM  
Blogger Hitesh Malviya said...

West Bengal HS Result 2017
UP Board High School Result 2017
UP Board 12th Result 2017
SSLC Result 2017
RBSE Result 2017
2nd PUC Result 2017
PSEB Result 2017
Maharashtra SSC Board Result 2017

4/09/2017 11:19 PM  
Blogger tomy hill said...

JKBOSE 12th Result 2017
Karnataka PUC Result 2017
Kerala HSE Result 2017
Maharashtra HSC Result 2017
MPBSE 12th Result 2017
TN HSC Result 2017

4/13/2017 10:34 PM  
Anonymous 10th Board Results 2017 said...

CBSE 12th Result 2017

10 cbse result

ICSE results 2017

5/17/2017 12:04 AM  
Blogger Neha Gupta said...

Relocation Services in UAE
Company Formation in uae
HR Consultancy in Dubai

5/18/2017 12:21 PM  
Blogger Neha Gupta said...

Relocation Services in UAE
Company Formation in uae
HR Consultancy in Dubai

5/18/2017 12:22 PM  
Blogger kabir baig said...

eid mubarak wishes
eid mubarak status
eid mubarak image

5/29/2017 4:50 AM  
Anonymous payday loans san-diego said...

The aggregate cost is the measure of the credit, in addition to intrigue, and expenses, if the loan specialist includes any charges. A few moneylenders add organization charges to their advances, others don't.

6/23/2017 3:28 AM  
Anonymous payday loans said...

Best sources to approach for getting moment endorsement payday advances are banks and money related foundations.

6/25/2017 1:38 AM  
Anonymous auto title loans said...

On the off chance that you require cash rapidly, a Payday Loan may be a superior choice for you, which can likewise give supports rapidly and for the most part without credit checks.

6/25/2017 10:12 AM  
Anonymous check cashing said...

The main thing that you should know is that a payday credit can be precisely what you require however it is not generally the best decision in each circumstance.

6/25/2017 12:40 PM  
Anonymous cash advance corona said...

Despite the fact that the financing costs may be marginally higher than those of a Teletracked Payday Loan, a No Teletrack Payday Loan remains an exceptionally sensible alternative for those needing no individual data checks done on them.

6/25/2017 1:38 PM  
Blogger games draw said...

I like your post so much

8/04/2017 7:38 PM  
Blogger عبده العمراوى said...

شركة قمة الدقة للخدمات المنزلية
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالخبر
شركة تنظيف منازل بصفوى وعنك

8/14/2017 10:02 AM  
Blogger Online job study said...

Awesome Article. we are also Doing Work In Education Sector. Visit

8/19/2017 4:53 AM  
Blogger Alice Taylor said...

Thanks for sharing your info. I really appreciate your efforts and I will be waiting for your further write

8/24/2017 6:56 PM  
Blogger Base Academy said...

Get your child enrolled in the best Preschool in Rajendra Nagar, i.e., Base Academy. They have best faculties, Air conditioned rooms, best security, best caretakers, etc.

10/12/2017 2:46 AM  
Blogger Thu Lê said...

I was very impressed by this post, this site has always been pleasant news. Thank you very much for such an interesting post. Keep working, great job! In my free time, I like play game: What about you?

10/23/2017 9:33 PM  
Blogger Games 2 Girls said...

Thanks for sharing your info. I really appreciate your efforts and I will be waiting for your further write

11/02/2017 8:57 PM  
Blogger kiran negi said...

CBSE Board 10th Result
10th Board Result
UP Police Admit Card

4/18/2018 10:14 AM  
Anonymous Job Alerts said...

Hello sir, your web site is lovingly serviced and saved as much as date. So it should be, thanks for sharing this with us.
i also found some helpful sites like yours.

HSSC jobs
RPSC jobs
fresh job alert
WPSC jobs
IBPS jobs
SSC jobs
West Bengal Police jobs
RRB recruitment
RRC recruitment 2018
Bihar police reruitment
Bank jobs
Latest jobs
UPSSC jobs
ARMY jobs
Upcoming jobs

5/17/2018 4:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eventually, this permits you access to cash all the more rapidly. Since these organizations understand that you can basically apply somewhere else on the off chance that they don't answer to you, they will typically endeavor to make the procedure speedy, simple and get assets to you with little bother.
Payday Loans San-diego

5/18/2018 2:34 AM  
Anonymous corbett treat resort said...

Corbett Treat Resort
Jeep Safari at Jhirna Zone in Corbett Park
Jeep Safari in Jim Corbett
Jeep safari in Sitabani
Best Resorts in Corbett
Top Resorts in Jim Corbett
Jim Corbett resorts near river
4 Star resorts in Jim Corbett
River Side Jim Corbett resorts
Jim Corbett resorts Packages

5/30/2018 1:11 AM  
Anonymous cbse board 10 results said...

cbse 10 results 2018
10 class results 2018
2018 cbse results
12th class results 2018
cbse board results 2018
haryana board 10th&12th results 2018
uttar pardesh 12th board results 2018
hos board 10 results 2018
rbse board 10 results 2018

5/31/2018 12:03 AM  
Anonymous yoga poses health benefit said...

Yoga Poses
Yoga Pose & health Benefits
yoga for meditation
yoga for weight loss
yoga for lower back pain
yoga for beginners
hatha yoga poses
bikram yoga poses types
yoga for inner peace
yoga videos
moksha yoga types
different yoga posture & images
Best yoga exercise to inhale in body
Ramdev yoga asana benefit
yoga types for men & women

6/16/2018 1:39 AM  
Anonymous online check process voter id 2018-19 said...

Voter Id Card
online check voter id status by name
online apply Voter Id Card Registration
Voter Id Correction
online duplicate Voter Id Card
online check process voter id 2018-19
apply for online voter card
check voter id status by date of birth
Maharashtra Voter ID Card Registration

6/28/2018 12:17 AM  
Blogger tarun said...

MS Office Setup Activation With Product Key

HP Officejet Pro 8600 Offline

Why My HP printer shows offline

7/03/2018 4:26 AM  
Anonymous Travel Nearby said...

This is a wonderful article, Given so much info in it, You can see travel nearby best tourist place Best Honeymoon Destination in this page.
Weekend Gateways Near Pune
Places to visit in Goa
Best Adventure Place in India
Beautifull Hill Station for Couples
Tourist Place Near Maharasthra
Tourist Place in Jaipur

7/26/2018 10:37 PM  
Blogger التسويق الاكترونى said...

Thank you very much for accepting the comment
ارخص شركة تنظيف منازل بالرياض
شركة تنظيف ستائربالرياض
شركة تنظيف واجهات بالرياض
شركة تنظيف السجاد بالرياض
شركة غسيل سجاد بالرياض
شركة تنظيف وغسيل كنب بالرياض
كشف تسربات المياه بالرياض
شركة تنظيف مكيفات بالرياض

8/03/2018 8:18 AM  
Anonymous Modicaren busniness said...

Hello sir, your web site is lovingly serviced and saved as much as date. So it should be, thanks for sharing this with us.
i also found some helpful sites like yours. Modicare Products

8/11/2018 4:49 AM  
Anonymous Chatpati news said...

Thanks have been given the opportunity to comment. Hopefully what you provided is useful for all those who need them. Visit my website if you want to know more about.
chatpati latest news
Top Stories News Headlines
Business News
Hot Actress pics
latest Upcoming Movies
latest news videos

8/28/2018 4:58 AM  
Anonymous Uidai help enquiry said...

Aadhar card download
Check Aadhar Card Status by name & moblie no.
e aadhar card update
aadhaar card correction
aadhaar card applicatiion
update aadhaar card

9/10/2018 12:30 AM  
Anonymous shekhawati kirshi farm said...

This is really a great support for the latest adviser from online. Really a supportive work for writing a good article.Anyone can enjoy it with the style of writing.
Top organic farm
Best organic farm in Rajasthan
Top organic farm in India
Organic Pomegranate Farming
Organic thai ber farm

9/26/2018 10:04 PM  
Anonymous Nearby places to visit said...

Thanks for sharing such beautiful information with us This is a wonderful article, Given so much info in it, You can see Travel Nearby best tourist place Best Honeymoon Destination in this page.
Travel Destination Near Manali
Beautifull Hill Station Shimla for Couples
Tourist Place Near Kasauli
Weekend Destination near Chamba
Weekend Destination near Kufri
Best Honeymoon Destination in India
Places to visit in Dharamshala
Places to visit in Kasol

10/09/2018 2:07 AM  
Anonymous Best upsc coaching in Delhi said...

Nice blog keep on sharing

10/15/2018 3:01 AM  
Blogger Most FamousTourist Places in Kerala said...

Thanks a bunch for sharing this with all of us you actually know what you are talking about! Bookmarked. Please also visit my site.

Most Beautiful & Stunning Waterfalls in Kerala
Most FamousTourist Places in Kerala
Tourist Places to Visit in Devikulam
Beautifull Hill Station Munnar for Couples
Tourist Place Near Kumarakom
Weekend Destination near Kovalam
Tourist Places to Visit in Kollam
Most Famous Hotels & Honeymoon Resorts in Munnar
Places to Visit in Calicut (Kozhikode)
Places to visit in Varkala

10/23/2018 1:02 AM  
Blogger Check aadhar card status online said...

Thanks have been given the opportunity to comment. Hopefully what you provided is useful for all those who need them. Visit my website if you want to know more about.

E aadhar card
Aadhar card download
Check Aadhar Card Status by name & moblie no.
e aadhar card update
Uidai help enquiry
Aadhar Card Correction

11/08/2018 9:10 PM  
Blogger FollowClass, Inc. said...

School app for teachers : These days due to the advancement in technology every sector whether it is school, college or an organization they all get advantages of advancement. School is a place where many students get enrolled for their bright future. Earlier it was very difficult for the schools to handle the activities of the school and give information to their students or to the parents of their students.

11/11/2018 8:49 PM  
Blogger travel nearby said...

Travel Nearby Places to visit in Uttarakhand
Best Tourist Places to visit in Haridwar
Tourist Places to Visit in Nainital
Beautifull Hill Station Auli for Couples
Tourist Place Near Bhimtal
Most Beautiful Places To Visit in Ranikhet
Tourist Places to Visit in Dehradun

11/20/2018 8:21 PM  
Blogger EMI Calculators said...

Greetings! Very useful advice in this particular
post! It’s the little changes that make the largest changes.

Home Loan Emi Calculator
Car loan Emi Calculator
Personal Loan Emi Calculator
Education Loan Emi Calculators
Two Wheeler Loan Emi Calculator
Credit Card Loan Emi Calculator

12/02/2018 10:46 PM  
Blogger Beautiful Places to visit in Rajasthan said...

Thanks a bunch for sharing this with all of us you actually know what you are talking about! Bookmarked. Please also visit my site.

Most famous tourist Places to visit in Rajasthan
Best Tourist Places to visit in Jaipur
StunningTourist Places to Visit in Jaisalmer
Beautifull Hill Station Udaipur for Couples
Incredible Places To Visit in Mount Abu
Alluring Tourist Places To Visit in Jodhpur
Most Tourist Places to Visit in Pushkar

12/13/2018 9:00 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home